Fortunes Hiding 6:09 Tue Feb 22
Loan Charge HMRC
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One of my mates an IT contractor has received a bill for circa £100k, for using various Loan Schemes to get paid.
Any advice?
How does the HMRC arrive at figure?
If they know all the companies that he’s used, then surely they know what he’s been paid?
Thanks in advance.
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Replies - In Chronological Order ( Show Newest Messages First)
Eerie Descent
6:13 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Sounds like you've been hiding fortunes, son.
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charleyfarley
6:21 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Tell him to buy a dog and call it Rosie, goes down well in court
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Westside
6:22 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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That will teach him to try to dodge tax.
Send him this:--
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/loan-schemes-and-the-loan-charge-an-overview/tax-avoidance-loan-schemes-and-the-loan-charge
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Lee Trundle
6:25 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Tell him to get a better mate to give him advice.
This would probably be the last place I'd ask for advice for a mate on this subject!
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Northern Sold
6:53 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Crooked IT Contractor?? Who would have thunk… unlucky pal… get your cheque book out… about time they paid their fucking debt to society… I know some that pay fucking less tax than me…
My advice… tell him to flog one of his houses… like the one in the South of France... here to help
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Mike Oxsaw
6:57 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Tell him to get paid a six figure sum.
Then he won't need to bother about tax because he'll be earning so much and can probably also get a couple of squeezes and a case of champagne approved as genuine business deductible costs in the process.
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Far Cough
6:58 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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HMRC are cunts as is anyone who codes for their computers. CUNTS
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Full Claret Jacket
7:59 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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This has been knocking around for a few years. I was involved in lobbying and protests at parliament against it. My local MP also got involved.
Although not affected myself, to get a contract, a friend of mine was forced to work through an agent who operated one of these schemes which they retrospectively have made illegal after he had be working through it for several years.
They have not gone after the untouchable promoters who made lots of money from it but those who were told these schemes were legal and joined them (and they were legal at the time) . Many people even had QCs and HMRC check the legitimacy.
My friend was in a mess over this so I took more interest. He tried to take his own life as he was in despair and there was no way he could challenge the made up figure and fines HMRC came up with.
HMRC use a nudge unit which uses behavioral science to target people and pressure them into paying, pushing them to sell their homes and pay up. It's a process which is highly controversial blatantly unfair. Actually they break a lot of the rules around what they are allowed to do.
Tax avoidance isn't illegal. Tax evasion is.
Whilst tax efficient schemes like ISAs exist people will use them. If HMRC made ISAs illegal tomorrow and came after everyone who had them with huge made up sums of money owed and penalties and kept pressurising you to pay, would you think this fair?
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Vexed
8:02 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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You've not really given much in the way of information, so i'm guessing you're not expecting an answer. Sounds to me like he tried to avoid a bit of tax through some schemes and got caught. I know of a couple of people who did something similar and also got caught out. Same ballpark figure too. Either didn't do his homework, took the piss too much or is a mistake by HMRC which they do a lot. I'd bet on one of the first two. Few sleepless nights for him coming up.
HMRC are proper cunts though. I shit em.
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joe royal
8:30 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Sounds like an umbrella scheme, always been bad news.
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bill green
8:48 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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When you open a company to freelance from you become a director and you're the one making the decisions for the company. If someone offered you a Rolex in the pub you'd get it checked but here people just signed up for schemes which were Redknapp style dodgy. Offshore loans, bonus schemes etc.
You can't really argue that you didn't know. and as stated once HMRC have got hold of you they make your life hell.
Best advice is to hire someone to get the figure down as much as possible and offer to pay in instalments.
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Full Claret Jacket
9:34 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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bill green - you're missing the point. The schemes were legal when many entered them and there were many agencies promoting it and pushing people into them for kickbacks. None of these people running these schemes are being pursued.
The legislation was introduced retrospectively which means they have changed the rules and then gone back and applied those rules to people involved in the schemes in prior years. They also took away the right to appeal so no matter what they say you owe, you are up shit creek in getting a fair settlement.
Don't get me wrong I'm sure there were some people making money by avoiding tax this way but there were also a lot of others not making much money who now are losing their houses, families and health due to this.
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Full Claret Jacket
9:46 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Fortunes Hiding
If he hasn't already, he may want to join LCAG. There are some knowledgeable folks there.
https://www.hmrcloancharge.info/
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Northern Sold
10:51 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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FCJ... the reason people joined these schemes was to get away from paying their bit... no if's or buts... the vast majority of us have to bite the bullet and do their bit... like I said I work or have worked with IT 'tractors that earn double to 3 times the amount I do and some I know pay less to the casue than I do... quite vocal about it as well... I know plenty of Accountants that do favours and get things sorted with HMRC... they get their bit... the client is happy... and the country still keeps moving...
HMRC has a legal duty to collect the tax owed. It would be unfair to the honest majority of taxpayers if avoidance scheme users escaped paying their share of the taxes that pay for our vital public services such as the NHS, police, and social services.
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dealcanvey
11:58 Tue Feb 22
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Fortunes hiding or hiding fortunes?
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Vexed
1:13 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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If you can get away with not paying tax, good luck to you I reckon. It's not like anyone other than ponces get the majority of the benefit from it anyway. This country hates anyone making anything of themselves, get taxed to oblivion. Looking after your own future huh? Tax bill. Earning good money? we'll take a disproportionate amount of that. Put the extra effort in did you? Fuck you, tax. Used you loaf did you? Lets make that a waste of your time shall we? Have another tax bill.
Cunts. They only reward idiots and ponces in this country. No wonder it's fucking shit.
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DagenhamDave
9:32 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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I agree with your sentiment vexed but its bollocks how much we are taxed and how many times. But avoiding basic income tax is a piss take.
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Lee Trundle
9:44 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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I'm with Sold0 on this.
If you can get away with it, then fair enough.
If you get caught, then don't start crying about it and pay up.
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Mike Oxsaw
9:56 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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When I was working at BT in the UK, I did a calculation on how long the people in the office needed to work to pay all their taxes due in a year.
It turned out that it was roughly anything earned between January 1st and the 1st week of July all went on taxes of one sort or another. I doubt that has changed much.
I wouldn't be surprise to find that many - if not all - of these "loopholes" were originally set up as special discrete schemes as favours for a very select few with the "right" connections.
All well and good until they became public knowledge and the proles were as entitled to use them as legally as the hoi-polloi, where they suddenly became an expensive embarrassment.
I can't recall the laws/rules that created these original loopholes being totally repealed - just tweaked so that only original beneficiaries could still take advantage of them whilst denying them to others.
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Crassus
10:48 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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All fine and Dandy but the point FCJ makes is that the regulations changed and people are being billed, without recourse, retrospectively
Akin to a change in speed limit and being fined for previously driving at a speed in excess
I’m struggling, if this is so, to understand why there’s not been a legal challenge. With the sums involved it looks tailor made for a type of class action
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